A conversation with Dr Matt Winning – an actual stand-up comedian and climate scientist
Sharon – Hi Matt, thanks for taking the time to talk to us at HEN (Happy Eco news) 😊
You’re a Climate & Environmental Scientist, Lecturer, Senior Research Fellow in the Institute for Sustainable Resources at University College London and Stand-Up Comedian. Should we be laughing at Climate change, or are we taking it too seriously?
Matt – We are simultaneously taking it too seriously and also not seriously enough. Obviously we need to be taking climate action far more seriously because there is a massive underestimation from those in positions of power (political and business) – and therefore as a consequence also the public at large – as to what the impacts will be, but ironically, one of the best ways to get that message out there and have engage people with the topic is by communicating to wider audiences using humour.
Sharon – I’ve been to one of your shows and really enjoyed your take on how to deal with climate change. What led you to become a stand-up comic?
Matt – I started doing a PhD in climate policy about seventeen years ago and the university I was studying at had an evening course in stand-up comedy, so I tried it on a whim really. But I’ve always been a massive proponent of having a passion and/or hobby to keep your life balanced. My hobby has now become my job, I’m not sure if that’s good or bad. I don’t have time for an actual hobby now.
Sharon – Most people don’t have the courage to stand up on stage and try to make people laugh. Are you tapping into the same courage (or motivation) that’s driving you to work as a Climate scientist?
Matt- Haha. No, I don’t think it’s the same thing driving me. I’d say that, certainly initially, it was the opposite or contradictory parts of my personality driving these. My need to show off and self-importance drove me to perform comedy. Whereas the climate science is driven wholly by humanitarian concerns.
Sharon – Over the last few years, climate change has been in the news far more than it’s ever been. Why do you think many people/ governments/ businesses are still not taking enough action to deal with the scale of the problem? What’s needed for the changes we urgently need that’s missing?
Matt – Leadership and commitment to an overhaul of our economic system to truly make it work sustainably for this generation but also future ones. I would say what is needed that’s currently missing is a commitment to 21st century clean industrial policy that centres around the transition. We also need to stop rewarding shareholders for harmful activities that may provide high-returns in the short-run but are detrimental to society long-term.
Sharon – You’ve co- hosted BBC Radio 4 show “Seriously, Though, The Planet” (BBC Radio 4 – Mark Watson and Matt Winning: Seriously, Though, The Planet , have your own podcast ‘Operation Earth’ (Operation Earth – Hosted by Matt Winning ), and have a TEDx talk about using comedy to address climate change ( Matt Winning: Climate Strange | TED Talk ). Who is your target audience?
Matt – My target audience really has to be those who already engage minimally with climate issues but who do not quite understand or fully appreciate the whole picture. Perhaps those who underestimate the scale or solutions. So it’s really the mass audience in the middle of the spectrum – the concerned, cautious and disengaged audiences we mention elsewhere. So, for me, my target is people in those groups who enjoy comedy. Which is a lot of people.
Sharon – I particularly enjoyed reading your book “Hot Mess – what on Earth can we do about climate change?” ( Hot Mess Climate Change Book | Matt Winning ). Was it cathartic to write or do you feel frustrated that after all your research and time spent educating people on climate change, you’re still having to work to spread these messages?
Matt – Thanks for reading it. I feel like it was pretty cathartic but I am under no illusions that I will ever have to be able to stop spreading these messages. It can be frustrating, especially when I see public conversations or people who are often about five years behind on many of the things I talk about. But that’s just always going to be the way of it. I see myself as always needing to push the envelope on what the discourse should be. At the moment my latest show is about climate and pensions and AMOC collapse.
Sharon – I try to reduce my carbon and ecological footprint as much as I can but always carry some guilt. For example, even though I now take more public transport, I still drive a car (tiny Ford KA…) One of the takeaways from “Hot Mess” for me was that it’s important reduce as much as we can, learn about what’s causing climate change, and address how we are all contributing but we still have to live our lives. One of the chapters in your book considers “is it ok to go away on holiday?” Is it?
Matt – Yeah it absolutely is ok. But we need to be realistic about our contribution. And with regards to your first statement, I also drive (a small, second hand Renault Clio) because we moved to the countryside to escape pollution from the city when my son was born but that meant owning a car for the first time in my life. That’s society in a nutshell. You try to prevent one harm but the solution is causing another. Nobody has to be perfect, but we all have to be better.
Sharon – You talk about the Yale programme on Climate Communication tracking public attitudes to climate change showing 6 distinct groups: Alarmed (26%), concerned (29%), cautious (19%), disengaged (6%), Doubtful (12%), dismissive (8%) – Adding these are all terms your Dad used about your career in the last year!!! You say the “doubtful” and “dismissive” groups who make up a 5th of the public. (My favourite bit is that you say you asked a person in audience where they were in the spectrum and why they weren’t alarmed who replied it sounded “exhausting”!!!). Do you think these x2 groups can ever have their minds changed / do we need them to?
Matt – No I don’t think many of them will change their minds per se but also, we don’t really need them to. However, I think we do need to be mindful that the climate solutions implemented do need to benefit these people if everyone is to get through this together in a fair manner. No person left behind as much as possible. So, I’d focus less on their opinions with regards to the science and much more on whether renewables, electrification and all the other stuff is benefitting these people’s daily lives and many will go on a journey themselves to understand. Telling people what’s good for them doesn’t work. Trust they will work it out for themselves.
Sharon – In “Hot Mess” you give us so much information which is brilliant. You mention DONG Energy Danish Oil and Natural Gas) that recently transitioned to one of world’s largest green energy companies now called “Orsted”, doubling its worth in 2 years as of 2020. It’s really inspiring. Do you see a future where more oil and gas companies become “DONGs”?
Matt – I could potentially see other National Oil Companies (NOCs) move significantly towards. But one of the main things we’ve seen over the last few years since I’ve written the book is that the International Oil Companies (IOCs) have passed on their opportunity to change and doubled down on their core business model to the detriment of the planet and long-term to themselves, however, a bunch of shareholders have made higher returns in the near term and for them that is enough.
So, I don’t see much hope now for these companies changing. I do, however, hope we will see lots of smaller, competitive renewables businesses and that energy in the future will be much more diversified in terms of company size.
Sharon– Has your perspective on climate change, changed since becoming a Dad?
Matt – Yes, a little. I think it has given me perspective on how little time many people have to think about the issue, as they are so focused on the day-to-day, but also how dearly they care about their families. It can make me angrier than it has before and it all becomes much less hypothetical and a lot more personal.
Thanks so much for your time, Matt.
Matt’s next comedy gigs are in Leicester on 8th February and London on 16th & 17th February for more details see: Matt Winning | Climate Comedy | UK Climate Comedian
Other articles by Sharon Michelle:
Half Earth – A New Year’s Resolution for 2026?
